Two of my favorite things, to be sure, and they were both on hand Saturday at the Rocky Mountain Bicycle Show at the National Western Complex in Denver.
I dropped round for a look-see, having missed last year’s inaugural show in the People’s Republic of Boulder, and shot the breeze with a few folks I know. There was Jon Cariveau from Moots, velo-advocate Al Brody from right here in Bibleburg, Chris Grealish and Brook Watts of CrossVegas, Brian Riepe of Mountain Flyer magazine, Eric Sampson of Sampson Sports and Mark Nobilette of Nobilette Cycles.
There was plenty of eye-catching stuff on show, but having recently developed a casual interest in bicycle touring I was particularly drawn to a touring frame that Mark had on display in his booth, complete with custom powder-coated racks front and rear; it was the one that got him the Best Fillet Brazed Bicycle award at the 2009 North American Handmade Bicycle Show.
Mark built a custom Reynolds 853 cyclo-cross frameset for me a while back, and I’m finally going to hang some bike jewelry on that beauty this fall. It’s taken a while to get all the goodies together, but a guy can’t slap just any old crap from the parts box on his first custom frameset. If this touring thing gets any more traction in my brainpan I may have to throw a few more bucks his way.
Tech weenie Lennard Zinn was also wandering around the joint, representing VeloNews, and he has more bike porn for you here. And don’t forget to check back to VeloNews.com later today or tomorrow for more on day two of the show.
Mad Blog Media 
Nice stuff.
I have thought of getting a touring rig and was looking at the touring single bikes at Co-Motion. But have not made enough of a commitment to tour long distance. For short tours, throwing a couple panniers on the cross rig should work. Sorta.
From the picture, it looks like the Nobilette’s rear rack mounts to the canti brake bosses. Is this correct? If so, did Mark make the bosses longer, or would those racks work on other bikes?
We were thinking of putting some much nicer racks on the new Co-Motion. These look pretty cool.
Hey, K,
I hear you — “nice stuff,” indeed. I’ll post a pic of the welds on my Nobilette ‘cross bike one of these days. Beautiful work.
I didn’t grill Mark about the canti’ bosses, but I expect he has gone with longer bosses to accommodate the racks, which he also built. A cautionary note: The racks cost almost as much as a decent frameset. Must be some hard labor in those bad boys.
Patrick, Touring? that’s like an almost normal mainstream thing sorta. Like you and Khal I’ve been playing the touring thing over in my head for some time. The Volpe I use for a commuter would make a decent base, but I am not crazy about panniers. They change the handling way too much. A two wheel Burly trailer has, so far, been an excellent load hauler around town and if a route doesn’t include single track or high crowned dirt roads such a rig ought to be OK.
My biggest commitment problem, touring wise, is getting the camping gear together. Since grad school it has been a sleep inside kind of life mostly.
Current rig is Vople, Old Man Mountain rear rack which mounts to the rear brake bosses using longer bolts (cold Stream I think), two JAAD grocery panniers (for commuting) and a Burley flat bed trailer (100 lbs capacity).
Riepe’s magzine is worth it. I found a copy (#7) about, oh two years ago, at a newsstand here in SacTown and I still have it floating around in my commute bag. A great piece of bikey journalism if I do say so myself. Sort of like older Dirt Rag but with a Western states flair…and not too heavy on mountain bikes only. Excellent work! Now I just have to get out there to the Rockies to partake in the sweet riding.
Oh and Moots ain’t bad either. Awesome company but p-r-i-c-e-y!
Patrick, cross bikes are made to be carried, touring frames are made to carry! I know someone who ‘retro-fitted’ a LeMond road frame to tour cross-country and he discovered that a custom touring frame works better. Longer wheelbase and sturdier design made for a better overall handling bike with panniers and a trailer. Not that you didn’t already know that, but I guess it also depends on the type of touring you are planning on doing.
Thanks for the Old Man Mountain reference, Ben. Link here.
http://www.oldmanmountain.com/
So far I found two racks that fit on my Redline frame with disk brake tabs. The present one is kinda klutzy looking. The rack before that worked after I took the Dremel tool to it and got rid of some, um, unneeded metal. Eventually the top of that rack fatigued and cracked because I replaced the standard-issue cheap shit rear reflector with a large and heavy combination reflector/light.
I have been thinking about a touring rig for 2 years now – I have this horrible fantasy about taking the ferry across Lake Mich to Ludington & riding around the top half back to Packerland. But 2 things always give me pause: the camping(like Ben) and the cooking.
And I don’t even know if I would like it. So what I’m going to do, before I commit myself(or someone else does it), is start doing 2 & 3 dayers, to see if I’m a stealth camper type, or a credit-card motel type. The excellent website Crazy guy on a Bike has a wealth of info contained in the ongoing blogs. I have been watchin 7 communicating with Jekk Kuys for about a year now – he’s into his 3rd year from Canada thru South America and due back up here next year, when I hope he will grace my home with a stopover on his way back to Canadia! Such Cojones!
Credit card camping vs. real camping is the difference between a real touring rig (Co-Motion Americano, Surly Long Haul Trucker, expedition tourers, i.e., looong stays and stout frame, rack lugs, super low gears down to 19 gear inches) vs. those compromise things sold nowdays with short stays and tall gearing. I laugh when I see a bike sold as a “touring bike” with a 30t inner chainring and 12-27 cassette. That is strictly a credit card tourer.
The Salsa La Cruz sitting in the garage waiting for me to write a check to a bomb factory buddy is currently equipped with a pretty wide drive train (Ultegra shifters, XT derailleurs, 46-34 compact crank and 12-32 cassette) and could be dropped to a triple using the existing Ultegra shifters and a 12-34. Not sure the frame would handle a heavy pannier load, esp. on the front end. But the disks would definitely be a plus compared to normal rim brakes on long descents with a load of panniers in addition to my load of gut. Other nice thing about the La Cruz is that the frame geometry puts the stem almost level to the seat with no effort–even the existing 7 degree rise stem flipped over would have me sitting completely upright if that was desired for a long haul on a bad back.
My better half, Shelly, and I have done three practice tours of a week to 12 days each to test the touring waters (fully loaded, with all the camping gear, etc., etc., etc.). Last August I pulled a BOB trailer behind my Surly Cross Check. It towed okay on mostly level ground, but I sure could feel the extra weight of the trailer going over Red Mountain Pass. But the real eye opener was the first windy descent with cross winds: Anytime I wanted to go right, the BOB wanted to go left, and vice-versa. VERY white knuckle. So much for touring with the BOB.
This year we did a week tour and I used the same bike but with front and rear panniers. I enjoyed it much more, but I can definitely see the advantage of a longer wheel base. If we start doing anything longer I’m going to want a Long Haul Trucker (yikes! a 7th bike!).
Shelly has a Long Haul Trucker in the smallest size they make, and she’s been absolutely delighted with it. We built is up with XT throughout except for the Avid V-brakes, Dia Comp brake levers, and DA bar end shifters on Pauls thumbies. She reports that it’s very stable under all conditions, which has made me quite jealous. The really nice thing about this bike is for the 54cm and under sizes they come with 26″ wheels (which I think all touring bikes should have).
FYI for anyone considering a Surly: be very careful with the sizing. They run big! Check the top tube length. My 54cm Cross Check actually measures 56 c to t. I’ve seen lots of people on Surlys that are at least a size too big.
Agree with the hassles of sizing. Let the buyer beware and do some research.
When I bought the Redline cross frame (end of year sale, not many sizes left) the company site showed the dimensions as C-T. Surprise was an understatement when I got the frame delivered and it was C-C, i.e., a size too large. And, of course, I was clueless about cross bike standover clearances being high to begin with. Mea culpa.
I barely clear the frame with 23c tires and with anything larger, such as my 700-32 cross tires or my 700-35 randonneur tires, I am clipping Mother Nature’s Tools on the top tube. Suppose I should have sent it back at the time, but was lazy and gave it a try. Its a constant annoyance.
I’m headed out next month for a solo tour from St George Utah to Fuita CO. At the end of the month we have Interbike and the weekend after that the shop puts on a camping trip to Fruita. Why waste all that time driving when I can use it as a perfectly good excuse to toss the panniers on the Gunnar Crosshair and ride for a week.
I will admit that I’m doing what I would call Hybrid Touring for this trip. Not quite credit card touring or full on touring. By using a light tent and sleeping bag I can pack it all up for less than 25 pounds, as long as I ignore the cooking gear. So food will be a mix of prepared crap and restaurants. Due to the route at times I will also be carrying 300-400 ounces of water.
I grew up doing long tours as a kid. Now due to time restraints I tend to do more of what I call “Crimes of Opportunity Touring”. When the route and time presents itself I grab it and run…
Rush Carter
CS West Bikes
Have a good trip, Rush, and keep the rubber side down.
Good thoughts, all,
As a virgin tourist, I’d probably consider something along the lines of Rush’s Hybrid Touring. I have a smallish Eureka tent and an OK North Face bag, but I’ve never put ’em on a scale and have no idea what the buggers weigh.
Given the woeful state of my fitness and the imperfect nature of my machinery, I might just pack a set of off-the-bike clothes, shaving kit, netbook, digi-cam and iPhone, and then ride somewhere interesting, hopping from motel to motel.
My Soma Double Cross will take racks and panniers front and rear, but I haven’t added the front bits yet. Nor have I tacked on a granny ring (happily, the crank is an old XT mountain jobber, so that should be a minor project). The bike also has shortish chainstays (16.7 inches) and a typically high BB shell, so I expect lighter might be smarter, especially for a noob.
The shortish chainstays might make full size panniers an issue with heel clearance and chain angles tighter for cross-chain gears. But otherwise, sounds like fun.
Pat, hi.
And thanx for sharing your show impressions. Regional bikes shows are essential to framing the local market, whether they’re at the big bike rides or stand-alones like the RMBS. Without them we’ll never again have a domestic bicycle industry. But at them you can almost feel the local bike community growing.
And I can totally see you as a bicycle tourist. Go with low riders, map case on one side, “glove compartment” on the other, tent and bag rear. Bone Voy-age, Dog.
I use a Jandd Expedition rear rack on my Cross Check. It’s a very stout, extra wide and extra long rack ideal for those bikes with shortish chainstays. It’ll hold more weight than I want to haul up a hill. Heel clearance has not been an issue with this rack, and I’ve been using Jandd Large Mountain Panniers (can you tell there was a time I was getting pro-deals from Jandd?).
For gearing I’ve been using an XT crank with a 22t granny and a 12-32 cassette with no mechanical problems. If 22×32 sounds too low, there have been a couple of times when I was bottomed out and whimpering (fully loaded going up Coal Bank Pass in a rain storm comes to mind).
And Rush: if there’s anything a Grand Junction local can do to help you out let me know (deinonychi@hotmail.com). Also, I wouldn’t mind checking out your Gunnar. Don’t forget, the road riding here is outstanding!
One thing that I forgot to mention and hasn’t been touched upon is: get used to riding everyday. You might not think it’s a big deal (we usually don’t) but if you need to get from point A to point b in x number of days, you may find that there are very few rest days. And it is not the miles that you will ride, but the number of consecutive days you ride. This is especially true if you haven’t been riding to far or too much.
But the best way to do it, is to just do it. Take a weekend and ride somewhere on Saturday, and then return home on Sunday. Simple and easy. If you feel like doing more, then just up the increments a little bit. It’s just like training to race: a little at a time.
22×32 is about 18.5 gear inches for we old fart gearheads assuming 27 inch tires. I have been running a 24×34 or 19.1 gear inches on our old Trek T50 tandem and it shifts just fine as long as you have a little bit of technique. One could convert this to metric, I suppose, but why bother if it is all relative?
Back when Buycycling actually discussed bicycling , they featured Frank Berto who wrote their engineering columns. I recall Frank’s columns for figuring out just how low one could go in a drive train, and the technique for pedaling these ultralow gears up steep climbs. In an age when it is All About Lance, I wonder how many people even recall Archimedes lever principle applied to cycling.
Frank Berto isn’t with Bicycling anymore? I guess that shows you how much I’m keeping up to date. My last new bike was when 8-speed Dura-Ace was the hot stuff. I used to brag about how I once disassembled and then reassembled a Sturmey-Archer AW hub blindfolded, but now I just get the blank stare and “What’s Sturmey Archer?”. Hey Patrick, there’s an opportunity. “How to ride a bike. Tips from THE Old Guy.”
Frank is still out there, showing more longevity than some.
http://www.thedancingchain.com/index.htm
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contributors.html
and on the current topic:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/interbike-berto.html
Loaded Touring Bikes
“It is discouraging to write this section. The same companies that made very good loaded touring bikes with unsuitable gearing in 1998 and 1999 are making loaded touring bikes with unsuitable gearing for 2000. For decades, John Schubert and I have been preaching the need for a Low gear less than twenty inches for loaded touring. Nobody responsible for component selection believes us. It could be even worse; maybe they don’t even read our articles….”
How to Ride a Bike? Yipes! Don’t go there. My friend Maynard Hershon has written all kinds of stuff about what happens when/if you even SUGGEST anything related to the subject of how to actually RIDE a bike vs simply pedaling one. The old farts that read this blog already know and the BUYCYCLING (that’s a good one, wish I’d coined it!)readers who don’t….don’t care. I remember seeing an old t-shirt back-in-the-day, printed on it was “I didn’t know shit until I started reading Mountain Bike Fiction, now I’m full of it!” You could pretty much insert the name of any popular bike rag for Mountain Bike Fiction nowadays.
I love it. Here’s another application:
“I didn’t know shit until I started watching FAUX News, now I’m full of it!”
Didn’t someone sell a shirt like that with FOX NEWS on it and got threatened with lawsuits, etc. Or worse, “Bill O’Really” would come to their house and “interview” them!
I twittered that I wanted to invite people on a ride this aft, but nobody came.
http://www.velonews.com/article/97144/armstrong-s-tweet-turns-out-more-than-1000-riders-for-a
LA had better luck! but i had a good ride.
Khal,
I had forgotten about the Berto article. Maybe the makers are getting wiser? The 2005 Vople (marketed as a ‘Cross bike, but clearly equipped as a tourer) that’s my commuter has 48/38/28 chain rings with 11-32 cogs. That’s a 117.8 high and a 23.6 low. Not quite what he’s recommending, but a lot better than the offered gearing in 1999.
Now if it would just stop raining. Oh wait I have fenders!