Just coffee, thanks

Food for thought.

One minute you’re having a nice chat with friends about comfort food, and the next some asshole is shooting up a grocery store.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’ve lost my appetite.

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37 Responses to “Just coffee, thanks”

  1. khal spencer Says:

    At least this asshole is alive. If they have to put thumbscrews on him to find out what the voices in his head were telling him, go for it.

  2. B Lester Says:

    Where were the “good guys with guns?”

    • Opus the Poet Says:

      From what I read, staying the hell outta the way.

    • SAO' Says:

      Oh, there were hundreds of them. SWAT, urban assault forces, snipers. Couldn’t swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting an officer carrying an assault rifle with laser sights.

      Check out photo 2 at the Daily Camera.

      They do a great job bringing in the bad guys after the bad guys are done shooting folks up.

      Wait, what? The plan was for the good guys with guns to stop the bad guys first? I’m not sure the social engineers at the NRA factored that in to their Minimally Viable Concept when they shipped the Good Guy app.

    • khal spencer Says:

      Boulder doesn’t want anyone with guns. Not sure who this 21 year old is or where he lived but with so many people in America armed to the teeth, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what happens when even one in a million gun owners goes berserk. The problem with a needle in a haystack is you have to sift through the haystack.

      • Pat O'Brien Says:

        Somehow I don’t think this guy was using grandpa’s S&W Model 10. There is an elephant in our room, and it is black and has 30, or more, round magazines.

      • khal spencer Says:

        Info on the shooter.

        No elephant. Not surprising, the NY Times says he used an AR-15 type rifle.

      • Patrick O'Grady Says:

        The Colorado Sun sez the dude recently bought a Ruger AR556. Eight hundy at your friendly neighborhood arms dealer. Shit, you have trouble finding a decent bike for that kind of money.

        • khal spencer Says:

          Most popular rifle in America. There are dozens of knock-offs. If he paid 800 for a Ruger AR556 he paid too much. Don’t ask me how I know that.

        • Pat O’Brien Says:

          It’s good for only one thing, as recently demonstrated in Boulder.

        • khal spencer Says:

          Its actually the most accurate long gun I have. Use it to shoot steel targets at 200-300 yds at the range. Otherwise, it lives in a very heavy safe bolted to a concrete slab. Like any other military weapon (M1 Garand, M1911, doled out by the CMP), its capable of whatever use or misuse the owner contemplates.

          I’ve railed for years that we need some sort of fair but rational licensing policy consistent with the Constitution, but that never seems to happen. NRA wants no restrictions on anyone and Sen. Feinstein et al want us to turn them in. As Ike said once, the middle of the road is all the usable surface. The extremes are in the gutters.

          I don’t want this to get acrimonious, and know right now I’m the skunk at the garden party, so will leave it at that. I’m gonna head home and walk the dog.

          • Shawn Says:

            I agree with you on your ownership philosophy. I have a good friend with a Thompson machine gun and he has no problems with the government regulations that involve the ownership and use of a fully automatic machine gun. We all have our thoughts on the tool(s) of the depredation, but it is the love, stability and education of all individuals to non-aggressive problem solving that will help us against tragic loss. Example in point: Has anybody won one of the popular online confrontational games with diplomacy?

          • SAO' Says:

            Please articulate a fair but rational licensing policy. Cuz the problem is, everyone is sane until they aren’t. Until Minority Report becomes a real thing, we’re just hosed.

            I just don’t get what the verbiage looks like on any policy that restricts ownership for behavioral issues. When you’re talking mental health and criminal records, especially for kids under 18, where records are typically sealed, there’s just too much wiggle room.

            And even after we go through the gyrations of this thought experiment, turns out that about 2% of the mass shooters would have made the cut-off to be disqualified for licensing. So what exactly is the point?

          • khal spencer Says:

            One suggestion is amend the 1934 National Firearms Act to treat these like machine guns, or at least somewhere between garden variety rifles and full auto. You need to apply to the Feds for a stamp and then find one and since new production was banned in the eighties, they cost a lot. You never, or almost never, hear about a twenty year old guy with a chip on his shoulder and voices in his head hosing down a supermarket with a Thompson.

        • Pat O’Brien Says:

          I don’t mean to confront or upset anyone. But, as Spock said, the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. And these mass shootings have gone on long enough.

          The number of AR-15 clones available, new and used, in the country to virtually anyone with the cash money is out of control. And, add in the AK-47 clones that are cheaper. I understand the fun of shooting accurate rifles. I once challenged myself to build a .22lr rifle for $500 or less using all American made products, including scope, that could shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I did it and it was fun. But, is the fun of shooting one gun worth the cost to society? What do I want? I want the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban put back into law with no sunset clause and no loopholes. It passed the constitutional test. Universal background checks as well. Congress needs to do it now.

          • khal spencer Says:

            If Congress wants to pass another AWB now is the time to do it as inventory is really low and this would make it permanent. As far as those out there? Give people a choice of applying for a permit or selling it back to the government for market value. My guess, based on statistics in places like NY State, is massive noncompliance but at least one can stop the proliferation.

            The permit could be the NFA permit one needs to have the Thompson that Shawn mentioned. My neighbor had one. He had the Feddle Gummint stamp. Its affordable as long as the Progressives don’t make it unaffordable.

            It is a low frequency, high consequence risk one takes when anyone with a credit card can walk out of a store with essentially the same weapon we give to guys in Afghanistan. If we are serious about the well regulated stuff, we should screen those citizens to make sure they are not loose cannons you wouldn’t want to share a foxhole with.

            Me? If Uncle Sam wants to know if I can be trusted with any of my firearms, I’ll remind Uncle that he trusts me with far more lethal shit than that. Of course, I had to deal with the annual visit to the company shrink. No big deal.

            As far as what withstands constitutional muster, that depends on the Supremes. Kavanaugh dissented on the D.C. circuit case upholding a ban. Not sure what Barrett will do. My hunch is a permitting system would pass muster easily (with plenty of precedent) while a “Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them in” might get a rough ride at the SCOTUS. Voluntary buy back would be a matter of bribing owners. I’ll trade mine to Uncle Sam for another Ti bike or a bolt action match rifle.

            But I’m not a Con Law scholar and didn’t play one on TV.

          • SAO' Says:

            In this case, it’s the needs of the many vs the wants of the few.

        • Pat O’Brien Says:

          PS: If you wonder what I consider a real rifle, watch “Quigley Down Under.” Right now Patrick and Khal are throwing up their hands and saying, “Here goes Pat about those damn Sharps rifles again!” AR-15? Nah, that’s not a rifle. This is a rifle.

  3. Opus the Poet Says:

    I’m just glad there were so few injured considering the number of people there.

  4. Pat O'Brien Says:

    Have Wayne LaPiere go up there and dig the fucking graves.

  5. John A Levy Says:

    I grew up in Colorado and even in thev60’s the entire state knew Boulder was about 10 to 15 percent nutso. Surronded by the rural right-wing communities, It is a miracle m it didn’t happen years ago. But no excuse the nut job that did this could only follow the previous administration. Or he could have come up from Terrible Tom Tancredo’s district. Too Bad Northern Colorado was a great place to live. Now like CA or the East Coast

    • SAO' Says:

      Without even getting into politics, Colorado is a weird, weird, weird state. We have tons of sun and outdoor recreation, yet consistently the highest suicide and DUI rate in the country. Every year there’s a new theory as to why we’re all so happy and yet so depressed, and nothing really changes.

      You hear folks ranting about all of the uranium in the drinking water, and you think, where do folks come up with these conspiracy theories, and then you find out that DoD and DoE have both buried a metric shitte tonne of bugs, gas, and nukes over the years, and it starts sounding not quite so crazy after all.

  6. Pat O’Brien Says:

    Well, it seems the comments on this post have slowed. When the next mass shooting happens, I will remain silent.

    • B Lester Says:

      We need constitutionally compatible controls, probably total licensing and no ARs. I’ve heard an interesting argument that kinda goes like this. You need to pass a state operator’s ​test and have proof of insurance to drive a big steel death machine. 2nd amendment compatible, shouldn’t something the same apply to guns?

      There are 120 guns for every 100 people in the US, but only 30% of the population own guns (recent article in Vox).

      I’d like to hear from Hurben.

      • khal spencer Says:

        I had to enroll in the DoE’s Human Reliability Program when I had full access to the nuke facility. Maybe we need something like that for certain classes of firearms. Seems to me it would be compatible with the 2A since the point of the 2A is to have a functional militia. How a 21 year old with voices in his head would qualify for a functional militia is what I’d like to know.

        • Patrick O'Grady Says:

          Nobody knows what the point of the Second Amendment is. That’s part of the problem. The Founding White Dudes really phoned that one in.

          The Supremes will be happy to perform their interpretative dance for you, but the nature of the performance will change over time based on the composition of the ensemble and/or respect for precedent.

          That being said, there are some interesting ideas being put forward in this conversation. None feasible, I fear, with a 50-50 split in the Senate and a skinny Donk edge in the House. If Sandy Hook couldn’t break the logjam, nothing will.

          And let’s not even think about a Constitutional Convention. Pandora’s Box would look like a jar of strawberry jam by comparison.

          • khal spencer Says:

            Hell, even the Manchin-Toomey background check thing went south. I’m at a loss. It seems like some tradeoff, such as a Federal firearms ID card to allow movement between states for legal folks and prevent sales to anyone, anywhere, without the card would be an idea. Of course the answer to that is NO because the highly restrictive states would scream and the loosey-goosey states would scream.

            As Yeats said, ‘things fall apart; the center cannot hold”.

            I wouldn’t trust these politicians with a Con Con any more than I would trust them with a Ruger 556. Far less, actually. It would be like setting a bunch of stoners free in a donut factory.

          • Pat O’Brien Says:

            A great summary, mi amigo, and spot on. Wherever you go, there you are. We haven’t moved, so here we stay.

          • SAO' Says:

            It’s the only amendment that says, Because of X, let’s do Y. So you have the whole thing about “if and only if X.”

            Can’t really fault them for the technology angle, but we’ve had 200+ years to address that one. Maybe we’re just bad at government?

            I’ve read thousands of historical, legal, and constitutional takes on that preface, but I don’t recall an English teacher weighing in. There are four phrases and three comma splices, which has to be some kind of record.

      • carl duellman Says:

        driving a car is a privilege, owning a gun is a right. or so i’ve been told.

      • Herb from Michigan Says:

        What pisses me off is the total lack of training needed to get a license to buy a gun. Yes! I believe you should first get a license, then if you do- you can buy a gun. Make it fekking hard. Weed out as many screwballs as you can. Shit even a handful would help cut down the number of firearms floating around. How about making gun owners pay for insurance like we do vehicles? Even the very slightest drop in these killings is worth any restrictive effort. Those fuckers are impinging on ALL our freedom to just go into public places without fear. So the insurance fund could pay for extra law enforcement needed if that is the way we want to go.
        In order to just teach kayaking I had to spend over $2000 and past multiple tests. And as far as I know I haven’t read where anyone goes on a killing rampage with their kayaks. The other scary thing is that some of the rampage killers are in fact trained on weapons pretty well by our own military. Once these guys are out as civilians there is no checking by anyone to see how many guns they own, if they are stable and what have you.

        • khal spencer Says:

          Well, one problem is insurance companies don’t cover intentional bad acts. So there is no such thing as having “homicide insurance”. Sure, if its a true accident, that is different. But last I checked, about 97% of gun deaths are deliberate. Either turning out your own lights or someone else’s.

          The training thing I dig. I took a hunter safety class before I went out in the field for the first time. Actually, it was a requirement to get a hunting license. Took a sixteen hour class with range practical (and extensive background check) just to have the little CHL card in my wallet. Last time I checked, CHL holders have vanishingly low criminality rates with their smokepoles. I’m all in favor of anyone with a gun demonstrating one, they know the law, two, they know the muzzle from the breech, three, they know Cooper’s Four Rules, and four, they are not a loose cannon or prohibited person. Then its “shall issue”. Which is why I keep harping on an FOID in your wallet before you can buy either guns or bullets.

          But maybe that’s just me. I knew when I took the LANL job I would have Uncle Sam putting the fibre optics light probe up my backside every year (I was in the Human Reliability Program for a long time). Didn’t bother me. Heck, I got a free annual physical out of it. Frankly, I miss my annual visit with the government shrink. One year when the crazies were saying the European Supercollider was gonna make a black hole to swallow the earth, I went in for my annual psych eval wearing an aluminum foil hat and an umbrella wrapped in aluminum foil connected to a voltmeter, labelled “black hole detector”. I had the nurses rolling on the floor laughing and the guards looking at me kinda funny.

  7. DownhillBill Says:

    I’ll second everything Khal said, except that jewelers have never had mandatory psych exams. We did have polygraphs until Ted Kennedy did them in. For the record, I never had a polygraph examiner who didn’t lie to me, and they all worked for the guy who was chairman of the state Board Of Polygraph Examiners. I’d rather have had the psych exams.

    Also for the record, many (most?) ordinary hunting rifles are significantly more powerful and more lethal than AR’s. The hoo-haw over black rifles is mostly hysteria over cosmetics. Those happen to be the most common rifles sold in this country today. Anything else with a detachable magazine would suit the mass-murderer demographic equally well.

    While I support universal background checks, they would not be likely to make much difference in mass shootings. Most of those guys have already passed such checks. Didn’t the latest one just buy his weapon from a dealer?

    • khal spencer Says:

      He did, and from what I read, his family thought he was a few cards short of a full deck. Families need to believe in the red flag system.

    • Opus the Poet Says:

      I keep saying that “assault weapon” was the wrong terminology to promulgate, the legislation needs to be based on a description of the functionality needed to be used as a weapon of mass murder: semi-automatic, long gun with a removable magazine that can be loaded prior to insertion in the weapon. Smaller than a high capacity fixed magazine, and reloaded in a few seconds. If the weapon has to be reloaded by manually feeding the bullets into the magazine one at a time the ability to reload a full mag in a few seconds that keeps the weapon relatively small and agile is gone.

      Look at the few shootings associated with revolvers that have magazines that need to be reloaded by hand every few shots, compared to long guns with replaceable magazines that can be pre-loaded with as few as 6 bullets but a person can carry dozens with hundreds of rounds total. I don’t recall any mass shootings with a revolver, that would require a suicidal shooter with near mystical marksmanship.

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